[clug-talk] This is not a thread, so please do not respond
sgrover at open2space.com
Sat Jul 11 20:24:09 PDT 2009
Not a thread. Says the guy posting to a public mailing list... But
incentive's aside for a moment.
Juan Alberto Cirez wrote:
> Case in point: I love GNU/Linux and I said as such. As a server,
> Cluster, Embedded, Real-Time, etc. OS there is simply nothing better.
> However, I similarly have no qualms about pointing out that one the
> Desktop it fall short (by a wide margin).
I don't recall anyone doubting your love for Linux. Or saying your
opinion doesn't count. I DO recall people posting thoughts and
experiences that counter your view, and asking you to clarify and offer
better support for your opinion. Which you still have not done.
> Yes, yes I know: around here such talk is blasphemy (and I was burnt at
> the cyber-stake for such heresy); but the reason I felt the need to fall
Perhaps you missed the fact, that the thread is STILL going, and the
ideas you brought up are being discussed. And EVEN some agreement with
your core observation that some things do infact still need work. I
have found the open source community to take self-reflection rather
seriously and engage in it all the time. Sure, anything based on ideals
such as "freedom" will have die-hards either way, and these die-hards
usually consider any opinion not their own to be blasphemous. But I
haven't seen any die-hards here going to the extremes. Correction - I
think I have seen one.
> We are so entrenched in the mentality of 'Linux doing its own thing'
> that we fail to realize most of the really crucial developers on which
> GNU/Linux depends are employed by commercial ventures; ventures which in
> turn depend on an ever increasing user base willing to pay (yes, paying
> for open source software, who would have thunk it) for their products
> and services. GNU/Linux entry into the mainstream and increase of market
> share is not just imperative; but absolutely necessary for the long-term
> health and vitality of not just GNU/Linux; but the open-source community
> at large.
Yes, corporations have begun to take more of an active role in
development of the entire FOSS ecosystem. But, because MANY
corporations are in that boat, as well has enthusiasts, hobbyists,
researchers, and more, it will be hard for any single corporation to
steer the entire community to a profit motive. Profit is just one of
the many motives involved when writing FOSS software, or contributing to
a project (documentation, but reports, etc.)
> For whatever the reason (be it a more intuitive HMI, better hardware
> support or ruthless business practices), the end result is that Windows
> accounts for nearly 90% of the Desktop market. GNU/Linux, at best has
> 2.5% - 5.0% of the market (and please don't tell me this is due simply
> to Microsoft deep pockets when Mozilla Firefox account for 35% of the
Anyone can easily see that MS still has a very large share of the
market. There are many reasons, least of which is "it's better". Go
through SlashDot postings for the past few years and read any thread
about Windows. Read the comments, follow the links you may find there
and read that. You begin to get a more complete picture of what is
going on with "Marketshare". And that's a single source of information.
And let's not forget the statistics you and the MS pundits like to
pull out (i.e. 90% of the desktop market), only account for PAID and
trackable installations. None of my Linux servers or desktop installs
cost me a cent or are trackable in that sense as an example. So the
stats need to be taken with a grain of salt. But yes, MS still has a
large share of the desktop.
Also, I find it rather ironic that I saw your message posted seconds
after I saw this article posted:
Ok, now back to the incentives.
Juan, thank you very much for controlling my thoughts and impulses in
replying to public email messages. Or telling me when that email
discussion should be "finished". Because everyone knows that I'm not
able to determine these things for myself. What's that? you didn't? I
beg to differ. "This is not a thread, so please do not respond" is the
subject of this very thread (yes, it IS a thread according to the
definition of the mailing list software, my email clients, and general
email usage, if not the protocol itself - don't read it if you'd rather
not). And in one of your postings, you start with "For the last time:
TO THE AVERAGE USER WINDOWS IS EASIER TO USE." Implying that only you
can make the decision when that point has been finished being discussed.
Those lines may work with children, but I'd like to think we are all
civil adults here who can think for themselves.
Juan, until this thread I thought you were reasonable, skilled, and
would often take part in the varying conversations. Hell, if you were
closer to Calgary, I would have recommended you to a customer when they
needed someone. Then this week you post a message that is so obviously
going to get a discussion contrary to your views. (Perhaps you could
have made your point in a less confrontational manner, but that's not
what happened) And in that thread you become insulting, condescending,
arrogant, and well, a jerk. What happened? Are you just having a bad
week? Did you have ulterior motives for this discussion (like livening
up the mailing list - which I do appreciate by the way)? At one point I
even questioned if your mail account had been hacked. I find it very
odd that you would suddenly have such a reversal in views and behaviors.
I do hope that whatever has changed your views/behaviors sorts itself
out, and your future messages to the list redeem the negative vibe that
has sprung up all around. Regardless, we go for beer on a regular
basis, you're still invited. :)
PS. Here's hoping I don't see another rude and dismissive reply. In
which case a "trash filter" can easily and permanently resolve any
More information about the clug-talk