[clug-talk] Inspiron 9400

Gustin Johnson gustin at echostar.ca
Tue May 9 22:46:24 PDT 2006

Hash: SHA1

<flame bait>
I don't think we can book the room for 3 days :P
</flame bait>

Seriously, whats with the binary distro bashing of Gentoo users.  The
"complete control" line is kinda silly,  you can learn about your system
at "a low level" with other distros, it is a matter of personal interest
and motivation.

I could rebut most of the post, but that is not the point.  Gentoo is
simply another distro among many.  Period.  The debian family can build
apps from source with it's usual dependency checking.  Aptitude can
clean libraries and modules that are no longer used (it can even suggest
removing programs that have not been used lately).

This is not meant to be a my distro is better than yours rant, I would
just suggest we be careful before making claims that one distro does
something better than another, without at least having a thorough
understanding of both.

Sorry if this post seems ill tempered (but not ill tempered like some
evil sea bass), but I have had too many encounters this week with Gentoo
users suffering from Mandrake expat syndrome.

Mitchell Brown wrote:
> Thanks for that. I'll keep all this in mind. I didn't know that about
> the GUI installer :-/
> Perhaps for the next meeting, someone should do a presentation on
> Gentoo! That would be something worth seeing.
> On 5/9/06, *Shawn* <sgrover at open2space.com
> <mailto:sgrover at open2space.com>> wrote:
>     On Tuesday 09 May 2006 20:11, Mitchell Brown wrote:
>     > I've never tried Gentoo, but I do know that the newest LiveCD has a
>     > brand-new graphical installer... much like in the recent flights of
>     > Kubuntu! So that would avoid alot of manual compilation labor. I'd
>     bzzzzttt!!!!  Wrong....  (but to be fair, that was my impression
>     until I tried
>     it out on this laptop yesterday... then aborted the process - read
>     on for
>     more on this).
>     The graphical installer is only really recommended for those who
>     have done a
>     manual install of Gentoo a few times.  It serves nothing more than
>     act as an
>     interface to collect the data needed that you would otherwise have
>     to enter
>     at the command line - but it gets ALL of it at once, and then goes
>     to work.
>     > love to try out Gentoo too. If you get it all working, let me know how
>     > it turns out, and maybe I'll give it a whirl. I've heard when it comes
>     > to speed, there's no comparison in anything. It's blazing fast. I
>     > guess thats where custom compiling the kernel to your hardware specs
>     > helps! If you want some more info on Gentoo, I would point you in the
>     > direction of www.systemtrash.com <http://www.systemtrash.com> -
>     they're a Romanian (?) podcast that
>     > specializes in picking apart distros. They've done (to date)
>     > PCLinuxOS, Ubuntu, Gentoo, and SuSE. Plus, they've done an interview
>     > with Leo Laporte (*all hail Leo Laporte!*). I encourage everyone to
>     > look at these guys - while having a funny-Diggnation feel to it, they
>     > seem to know what they're doing!
>     The BEST place for info on Gentoo is the Gentoo forums -
>     http://forums.gentoo.org.  almost any question you can think of has been
>     asked there.
>     Jon, and anyone else considering it, here's what you can expect from
>     Gentoo.
>     - steep, but easy, learning curve.  The installation documents are
>     simply
>     incredible and explain so much that you take for granted.
>     - LOTS of time compiling.  I fully expect that to go from scratch to
>     a KDE
>     desktop, without using binary packages (yes, that's possible too),
>     will take
>     at least a full 24 hours of compile time on modern hardware, if not
>     longer.
>     Unless you have set up a compile farm.  Even with my AMD 64bit 3000+
>     and a
>     Gig of ram, it still took a full 48 hours to compile X windows, and
>     KDE.
>     - However, with proper tuning of your system, it will be relatively
>     faster
>     than an equivalent install of Fedora/Suse/Mandriva/etc.  But don't
>     expect to
>     get the tuning down until you've installed Gentoo 3 or 4 times.
>     - A streamlined system - no unnecessary gunk installed, unless it is
>     needed by
>     a particular application.  (think about abandoned libraries, or programs
>     you'd never use - which is the case in all the mainstream distros)
>     - A nagging suspicion that you've missed a configuration option that
>     is there
>     by default in a mainstream distro.  i.e. My box does not automount
>     CDs or USB
>     devices.  I thought I had this set up, but it's still not working -
>     and it's
>     just not a big enough problem for me to go hunting for it.  However,
>     this
>     works flawlessly with Kubuntu and other distros.
>     - control.  That is the ultimate reason to go to a system like
>     Gentoo.  You
>     have complete control over how the system is setup and
>     configured.  You do
>     with other distros as well, but you have to be concerned when
>     rebuilding a
>     kernel that you don't break something.  Or you have to work around their
>     method for editing/saving your configurations.  With Gentoo, you'd know
>     (after a couple of installs), what works and what doesn't, with no
>     interference other than your level of knowledge.
>     I liken the choice of distro in this case between buying a prebuilt
>     car, or
>     building your own using a kit.  (whereas Linux From Scratch would be
>     building
>     all your own parts).  Anyone can drive a prebuilt car.  It takes a
>     strong
>     interest in how things work to try building your own.  But, building
>     your own
>     gives you a much better knowledge base for working with the prebuilts.
>     Windows chauffeurs you around and decides where you can stop, Linux
>     lets you
>     drive yourself and pick your own destination (and car).  Some Linux
>     distros
>     (like Gentoo), give you the tools to build your own car - with all the
>     responsibilities that implies.  (of course all Linux distros give
>     you the
>     tools, but the mainline distros make them more or less irrelevant).
>     I'd recommend Gentoo to anyone who is serious about really learning
>     how Linux
>     works (or Linux From Scratch - though I understand that's even lower
>     level).
>     If you don't have that desire, I'd stick with a mainstream distro.
>     I considered installing gentoo on my new laptop, and decided against
>     this for
>     a couple of reasons.  First, I didn't want to take the time to
>     compile the
>     system (though I know enough I could have been up and running in two
>     hours -
>     at a basic command prompt at least).  Second, I don't want to take
>     the time
>     to figure out the ins and outs of getting the laptop functioning
>     properly
>     (wireless, display/graphics, automounts, etc.)  Third, I wanted a
>     system I
>     could just download an ISO for and do a fairly quick
>     install/recovery if I
>     needed to.  If I were on the road and something caused me to rebuild
>     the box,
>     I don't want to wast days before it's back to the state I was in
>     originally -
>     I'd rather only wast a couple of hours.
>     That said, Gentoo has a home on my desktop, though I think I've
>     installed/removed a few things too many and should start over with
>     its system
>     (it's been about a year since the last time I wiped the drives, and
>     I like to
>     try out new things a lot.. :) )
>     Hope this helps shine some light on the choice for distro.  I'm not
>     really
>     trying to belittle Gentoo, but it really is better suited to those
>     who like
>     to take things apart and try to put them back together.  It's a
>     tinkerer's
>     distribution.
>     (btw, the resolution hack didn't work on the new laptop... so I'm
>     now stuck
>     until Linux catches up with that hardware I think)
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> -- 
> pub 1024D/9091C422 02/05/2006 Mitchell Brown <mbgb14 at gmail.com
> <mailto:mbgb14 at gmail.com>>
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> 9091 C422
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