[clug-talk] [OT] Sait

Cameron Nikitiuk cameron.nikitiuk at shaw.ca
Wed Jan 5 11:35:26 PST 2005

Kevin makes some good points, particularly about the benefit of skills
versus education.  But if I could let me add this.

I personally don't hold any (or very little) value in university education
for the simple fact that most courses tend to focus on theoretical knowledge
as opposed to hands-on application of what was learned.  I personally prefer
a trade or technical school like Mount Royal or Grant MacEwan in Edmonton.
The programs tend to be designed around teaching you what you need to know
but giving you hands-on projects to build those skills as well as helping
you develop a portfolio of projects that you can show off.

I have taken both types of edumacation and learnerizing styles and would
definitely recommend going the practical application route.  This gives you
advantage of actually using the skills that employers are looking for and
will benefit you more.  You may learn a little less than a university
education, but the practical experience will ultimately mean more.  Even if
you only get the basic skills, they offer a better foundation than "here
learn this topic and then we will go on to the next one in ten minutes."

My advice is to research, research and then do more research on the programs
you are looking at.  Look at a few of them side by side and look at the
"value" in them as opposed to the amount of courses.  Look for a program
that includes a practicum or some sort of onsite experience; talk to past
students for the program; talk to people that have hired people from that
program; talk to the instructors, etc.  You are paying for this
program...make sure you are getting full value.  If they don't give you
value in the classroom then steal the education from them.  Questions
questions questions and demand answers!  So ends my rant!!!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: clug-talk-bounces at clug.ca [mailto:clug-talk-bounces at clug.ca]On
> Behalf Of Kevin Anderson
> Sent: January 5, 2005 12:16 PM
> To: CLUG General
> Subject: Re: [clug-talk] [OT] Sait
> ***
> This is a rant.  If you don't want to read it, then stop now...
> ***
> Personally, I think most education like that is a waste of time,
> if you're
> thinking in terms of getting employed.  I'd focus on experience,
> networking
> and experience.  If you can't get experience through a position,
> then get it
> through volunteering, or working on Open Source projects.  I've
> brought in
> about half a dozen people in my time with this company.  all but one were
> hired because I knew their work, either through CLUG, or
> elsewhere and 1 was
> hired because of his contacts inside this company.  I've never seen their
> resumes, and I don't know (or care about) the education of any of them.
> Education (as a general rule) seems to be a self sustaining
> industry.  People
> are fooled into thinking that they're investing money in themself, but
> they're really just getting better trained for more school.  I'd
> love to see
> the stats on how many people are working in the field that they went to
> school for.  But I'd bet that it's quite low.  There are
> exceptions, perhaps
> most obviously, Doctors, but other than that, anything beyond
> core technical
> training on something that you need IMMEDIATE knowledge about is
> semi-useless.  And this won't change soon, because the schools
> don't care.
> They simply make the useless courses "mandatory" so that teachers
> with tenure
> can teach useless subjects that are no longer relevant rather than being
> expected/required to stay current, which happens to their students in the
> real world.
> Most people take university education because their parent's tell
> them it's
> best for them.  Most parents pay for it because after 8 or 10
> years with a
> teenager, they'll gladly pay to have them out of the house.  And
> lets face
> it, when our parents were in school, things didn't change so
> fast, meaning
> topics covered in school stayed relevant for longer.
> Right now, who gets paid the most?  Is it educated people?  (Obviously
> teachers, scientists, etc, say PHD or better)  or is salary/job security
> completely disconnected from education, and rather it focuses on
> a specific
> skill, which, quite frankly, no school can adequately teach.  (Musicians,
> Athletes, Investors, etc).
> This is particularly true in IT.  Think about these people, their
> education vs
> their experience.  On which basis would you hire them?
> Bill Gates.
> Larry Ellison
> Andrew Tridgell
> Andrew Bartlett
> Linus Torvalds
> Michael Dell
> Lou Gerstner
> James Gossling
> Andrew Morton
> Hans Reiser
> Eric S Raymond
> etc
> etc
> etc
> Kev.
> On Wednesday 05 January 2005 11:00, Giovanni Cuzzola wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > can anyone give any feedback with the Bachelor applied degree in
> > Information Systems at Sait? I am interested in taking it, but
> I dont know
> > if it is a good idea or not, counting the I already have the diploma in
> > Computer Technology.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > Giovanni
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