[clug-talk] Too Many Mailing List Guidelines?

Shawn sgrover at open2space.com
Tue Nov 30 13:07:39 PST 2004

On Tuesday 30 November 2004 13:27, Jarrod Major wrote:
> On Tuesday 30 November 2004 11:37 am, Shawn wrote:
> > It seems to me that we as a group are spending too much time talking
> > about guidelines than other pertinent issues. <grins>
> Opinion:
> Agreed. From my point of view, it appears that the more we try to control
> things the more people we make unhappy. The 'guidelines' are a suggestion,
> take 'em or leave 'em. We needed to start somewhere to give people an idea
> of what they should or shouldn't do. Only in extreme cases has the
> Executive gotten involved.

Such as this one? <grins>.  I think you've just made my point here - trying to 
impose control does not equal self moderating....  (admittedly, there 
probably needs to be a balance in there somewhere... I don't think we have 
that balance yet though...)

> Officially: People come and go as traffic ebbs and flows. Some people are
> turned off and leave, some come back after a hiatus, some don't.
> Opinion: We can't please everyone, as hard as we try.

people coming and going as their interests change is expected.  To have people 
leave because they feel excluded, and/or don't care about the community type 
discussions isn't.  If I were starting Linux all over, I'd be looking for a 
mailing list that can offer the input I need to learn how to get my systems 
up and running, and  configured.  I don't think the clug-talk list fits this 
role anymore - the knowledge and skill is there, but someone new may not 
think these questions are appropriate given the community nature of most of 
the messages.

> Opinion: I disagree. I think clug-talk is doing what it always has,
> providing CLUG with a forum for members and non-members alike.

> Opinion: clug-talk has _never_ focussed on any one topic on purpose. It's a
> general list! Topics come and go. 

Perhaps I misunderstood the purpose of the clug-talk list back when I first 
signed up....

> > Of course, this is all just my opinion, and really, I'm not trying to
> > offend anyone.  I wanted to point out an issue I've seen developing, and
> > maybe get some feedback from the list members (even if it's just to tell
> > me to shut up and there is no problem..<grins>).  (um, respectfully, can
> > I ask the executive to NOT comment on this email in an executive
> > capacity, until there is a consensus on it? <grins>)
> Sorry, I felt compelled. I would love to read what other people have to say
> about the subject. And no Shawn, I don't want you (or anyone else for that
> matter) to shut up.

Sorry Jarrod, but I think the "official" stance on this topic may skew public 
opinion... too late now though... I'll discuss this one with you in person 
though (over beer) to avoid any mis-interpretation via email. :D  (not to 
mention my thoughts on this haven't fully gelled yet...)

> > May I humbly propose a new mailing list called clug-community.  Then all
> > emails such as this one could be (politely) referred to that list, and
> > keep clug-talk the technical resource that most of us signed up for.  I
> > think that initially most of our traffic would end up on the community
> > list, but in a short while, the technical talk will far exceed the
> > community talk (again), if we can keep the two mostly separate.
> Opinion: "asking is polite demanding" :D Seriously, if there is enough
> support for starting new lists I will do everything in my power to see that
> it happens.

I have always thought the word "propose" was roughly equivalent to "suggest" - 
not "demand".  I'm but one voice in the group, and I don't expect people to 
agree with me all the time (well, not usually LOL).  Hence a proposal for 

In the end, I feel that we are starting to stray from our roots and becoming 
more of a bureaucratic organization, and less of a knowledge resource.  This 
has much less appeal to me than the loose, free form technical discussions, 
meetings, and presentations.  (don't take that as a slight in any way - I 
think the executive is doing a great job in organizing things and trying to 
listen to the members.)


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